Saeed Amen, author of “Trading Thalesians: What the Ancient World Can Teach Us About Trading Today”, discusses the past, present and future of FX trading.
One of the first things people want to know when they meet Saeed Amen, Co-Founder and Consulting Quant for The Thalesians, is: what does Thalesians mean?
The puzzling name refers to the Greek philosopher, Thales of Miletus, the first options trader.
Mythology has it that after becoming fed up with being ridiculed for being an impractical philosopher, an occupation suited only for poverty, Thales made a fortune by forecasting a good olive harvest and cornering the press market.
“I’ve been working in markets for 10 years, and it was a natural extension to write about I’d seen, but at the same time, I wanted to have a spin on it,” said Amen. “I didn’t know too much about the ancient world before I started the book, so it was a good opportunity to find out what’s happened in history.”
Amen’s decade in the financial industry includes working in major investment banks like Nomura and Morgan Stanley, but his most memorable experience may have been watching Lehman Brothers implode from the inside as a young quant strategist.
Risk has been transferred from sell side to buy side in Execution
That catastrophe served as a catalyst to start the Thalesians, along with his colleagues Paul Bilokon, currently a director at Deutsche Bank, and Matthew Dixon, currently an academic in Chicago.
“We were trying to work out what went wrong, so we started The Thalesians seminars, and it built up into a big community,” said Amen. The Meetup group has just over 1,800 members with branches in London, New York, San Francisco and Budapest.
It’s also grown into a research and consultancy with an office in Level39, a fintech hub in London’s financial district, Canary Wharf, and Amen is a regular commentator on the markets for major media outlets.
And just as looking back at ancient wisdom can teach us about how we got here, and where we might be going, so too can speculating about the future. The next big thing in Institutional FX, said Amen, is going to be in the execution space.
“It’s not going to be the case that you are just going to a broker and get a price for your $1 billion order because banks will charge you, they can’t take as much risk as they used to,” said Amen.
A few years ago, most orders were manual but things are changing: ticket sizes are going lower, more and more is being transacted on electronic platforms, and it costs more for the buy side to get prices in big sizes. In other words, execution risk is going up.
When buy side uses trading algorithms, there’s no way of knowing what the price will be at the end of the fill. It’s a whole new way of thinking from going to a broker and getting a price up front, Amen noted.
It also means buy side will need to manage and optimize execution risk: “That part’s (about) going to the right venue, what type of execution algorithms you are using, and whether your bank’s giving you the best Liquidity .”
“Risk has been transferred from sell side to buy side in execution,” said Amen. “There’s also a lot more scrutiny of this as well in terms of best execution, there’s regulatory pressure to make sure buy side get the best price.”
One of the first things people want to know when they meet Saeed Amen, Co-Founder and Consulting Quant for The Thalesians, is: what does Thalesians mean?
The puzzling name refers to the Greek philosopher, Thales of Miletus, the first options trader.
Mythology has it that after becoming fed up with being ridiculed for being an impractical philosopher, an occupation suited only for poverty, Thales made a fortune by forecasting a good olive harvest and cornering the press market.
“I’ve been working in markets for 10 years, and it was a natural extension to write about I’d seen, but at the same time, I wanted to have a spin on it,” said Amen. “I didn’t know too much about the ancient world before I started the book, so it was a good opportunity to find out what’s happened in history.”
Amen’s decade in the financial industry includes working in major investment banks like Nomura and Morgan Stanley, but his most memorable experience may have been watching Lehman Brothers implode from the inside as a young quant strategist.
Risk has been transferred from sell side to buy side in Execution
That catastrophe served as a catalyst to start the Thalesians, along with his colleagues Paul Bilokon, currently a director at Deutsche Bank, and Matthew Dixon, currently an academic in Chicago.
“We were trying to work out what went wrong, so we started The Thalesians seminars, and it built up into a big community,” said Amen. The Meetup group has just over 1,800 members with branches in London, New York, San Francisco and Budapest.
It’s also grown into a research and consultancy with an office in Level39, a fintech hub in London’s financial district, Canary Wharf, and Amen is a regular commentator on the markets for major media outlets.
And just as looking back at ancient wisdom can teach us about how we got here, and where we might be going, so too can speculating about the future. The next big thing in Institutional FX, said Amen, is going to be in the execution space.
“It’s not going to be the case that you are just going to a broker and get a price for your $1 billion order because banks will charge you, they can’t take as much risk as they used to,” said Amen.
A few years ago, most orders were manual but things are changing: ticket sizes are going lower, more and more is being transacted on electronic platforms, and it costs more for the buy side to get prices in big sizes. In other words, execution risk is going up.
When buy side uses trading algorithms, there’s no way of knowing what the price will be at the end of the fill. It’s a whole new way of thinking from going to a broker and getting a price up front, Amen noted.
It also means buy side will need to manage and optimize execution risk: “That part’s (about) going to the right venue, what type of execution algorithms you are using, and whether your bank’s giving you the best Liquidity .”
“Risk has been transferred from sell side to buy side in execution,” said Amen. “There’s also a lot more scrutiny of this as well in terms of best execution, there’s regulatory pressure to make sure buy side get the best price.”
SIX to Buy London’s Aquis Exchange in a £207 Million Cash Deal
Finance Magnates Annual Awards 2024 | FM Awards 2024 Highlights
Finance Magnates Annual Awards 2024 | FM Awards 2024 Highlights
🎥Catch the best moments from the Finance Magnates Annual Awards Gala Dinner!
An evening where top names in finance came together to celebrate achievements, enjoy live music, and connect over a memorable dinner. Watch the highlights and feel the energy of our first gala in Cyprus!
Congratulations to all the winners for their dedication to excellence and leadership in the financial industry, including XM, Trading PRO, FP Markets, Deriv, FxPro, LATAM, Headway, ATFX, FBS, AMEGA, EC Markets, Axi
For more information about the 1st Finance Magnates Annual Awards, visit https://bit.ly/3Zb7wNz
#FinanceMagnatesGala #IndustryExcellence #GalaHighlights #FinanceMagnatesAnnualAwards #FinanceMagnatesAwards #CelebratingSuccess #FinanceCommunity
🎥Catch the best moments from the Finance Magnates Annual Awards Gala Dinner!
An evening where top names in finance came together to celebrate achievements, enjoy live music, and connect over a memorable dinner. Watch the highlights and feel the energy of our first gala in Cyprus!
Congratulations to all the winners for their dedication to excellence and leadership in the financial industry, including XM, Trading PRO, FP Markets, Deriv, FxPro, LATAM, Headway, ATFX, FBS, AMEGA, EC Markets, Axi
For more information about the 1st Finance Magnates Annual Awards, visit https://bit.ly/3Zb7wNz
#FinanceMagnatesGala #IndustryExcellence #GalaHighlights #FinanceMagnatesAnnualAwards #FinanceMagnatesAwards #CelebratingSuccess #FinanceCommunity
FMLS:24 | Shaping the Next Era of Financial Evolution
FMLS:24 | Shaping the Next Era of Financial Evolution
Welcome to FMLS:24 – the premier event where influential brands and leaders in trading, payments, fintech, and digital assets come together!
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Welcome to FMLS:24 – the premier event where influential brands and leaders in trading, payments, fintech, and digital assets come together!
Join over 2,500 industry professionals, engage with 150+ expert speakers, and discover endless opportunities with 70+ top exhibitors. FMLS:24 is where senior executives and decision-makers gather to close deals, forge new partnerships, and strengthen connections with long-term clients.
Whether you’re in finance, technology, or payments, this summit is your gateway to future growth, meaningful collaborations, and industry-leading insights.
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FMLS:24 | Shaping the Next Era of Financial Evolution
FMLS:24 | Shaping the Next Era of Financial Evolution
Welcome to FMLS:24 – the premier event where influential brands and leaders in trading, payments, fintech, and digital assets come together!
Join over 2,500 industry professionals, engage with 150+ expert speakers, and discover endless opportunities with 70+ top exhibitors. FMLS:24 is where senior executives and decision-makers gather to close deals, forge new partnerships, and strengthen connections with long-term clients.
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👉 Don't miss out – secure your ticket now at https://events.financemagnates.com/ZQEYy0?utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=fmls24-awareness&utm_medium=video&RefId=MLS%3A24+Video+Promo
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Welcome to FMLS:24 – the premier event where influential brands and leaders in trading, payments, fintech, and digital assets come together!
Join over 2,500 industry professionals, engage with 150+ expert speakers, and discover endless opportunities with 70+ top exhibitors. FMLS:24 is where senior executives and decision-makers gather to close deals, forge new partnerships, and strengthen connections with long-term clients.
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👉 Don't miss out – secure your ticket now at https://events.financemagnates.com/ZQEYy0?utm_source=youtube&utm_campaign=fmls24-awareness&utm_medium=video&RefId=MLS%3A24+Video+Promo
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FM's Andrea Badiola Mateos at LSEG's Cyprus event
FM's Andrea Badiola Mateos at LSEG's Cyprus event
FM's Andrea Badiola Mateos at speaking in a panel discussion at LSEG's Cyprus event
FM's Andrea Badiola Mateos at speaking in a panel discussion at LSEG's Cyprus event
The Role of PAMM, MAM & Copy Trading in Business Growth Strategies | Webinar
The Role of PAMM, MAM & Copy Trading in Business Growth Strategies | Webinar
The copy trading market is projected to double in size, growing from $2.2 billion to $4 billion by the end of this decade. In light of this, brokers and financial institutions are increasingly adopting PAMM, MAM, and Copy Trading solutions to scale operations and drive profitability. In this insightful webinar, Sergey Ryzhavin, Product Owner at B2COPY, outlines the advanced features of the B2COPY platform, showcasing how it enhances Copy Trading, PAMM, and MAM performance. Sergey also explores strategies for using these tools to attract new clients, improve customer engagement, and create additional revenue streams.
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The copy trading market is projected to double in size, growing from $2.2 billion to $4 billion by the end of this decade. In light of this, brokers and financial institutions are increasingly adopting PAMM, MAM, and Copy Trading solutions to scale operations and drive profitability. In this insightful webinar, Sergey Ryzhavin, Product Owner at B2COPY, outlines the advanced features of the B2COPY platform, showcasing how it enhances Copy Trading, PAMM, and MAM performance. Sergey also explores strategies for using these tools to attract new clients, improve customer engagement, and create additional revenue streams.
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